Update on debate on evangelism
I'm not Jewish but a large part of my family is, as my Grandmother, my father's mother, was born in London to Amsterdam musicians and Rabbi. Much of my family who were Jewish were murdered by Nazis, but a few survived. At least one was in the Dutch resistance. His mother and step father were gassed at Auschwitz. He would not be Rabbi, he became a soldier. An elderly aunt of his was sickly, and when Nazis took her away the made her pen letters to the red cross asking for medication, and post dated. Then they killed her and regularly posted the letters.
My background is such that, having become an evangelical Christian as an adult, I refuse to evangelise to Jewish people, especially children. Not that I lie, but I recognise that Jewish faith is spread through family and I recognise the deadly insult of stealing family that the pope (Pius IX) committed in 1858 with Edgaro Mortara.
I believe my past and my future is entwined with Jewish peoples. My hope is they prosper wherever they are, much as I hope for anyone. I feel Israel belongs to Jewish peoples.
I also recognise my opinion is meaningless in the scheme of things. And I recognise my arrogance in my declarations. I feel I can agree or disagree, much as anyone can with family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case
BW: "I have not come to bring peace, but division." If Yeshua appears to a jewish child in a dream and that child wishes to follow him-Has Jesus stolen that child?
If Jesus is your lord and saviour, on what basis do you refuse to obey his final command to go and make disciples of all nations? Would you share life-giving truth with every people except the jewish people? If you believe Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, how is it respectful to withhold thees things from anyone?
I can understand on an individual basis finding that some do not have ears to hear, or persecute you to such an extent that one must withdraw. But why would we expect ourselves to be above Paul or Christ's example and commands? Pope Pius is a satanic appropriator who God will judge. Whatever coercion or tactics he used are not of God but of men. His evil doesn't void Christ's good.
Me: You are forgetting respect and the duty of a Christian, not to be Christ, but to point to Christ with testimony. Pope Pius IX was wrong and his church suffered because he was wrong. It is not my job to fightt the devil, but to resist the devil, and hold to the Lord. Think about that. Has anyone been converted in their faith by what you said? Or is it by the testimony you give in faith? During Pentecost, the disciples did not convert by their authority, but in the name of Jesus. Why would Jewish children look to me on matters of faith before thier parents?
BW: Conversion is a work of the spirit. No disciple "converts" anyone. But all disciples are to follow Christ and share the gospel. In both word and deed. We are called not to conform to the world but to be conformed to the image of Christ. Christ came to destroy the works of the devil. To be salt and light means lies are challenged with truth. Every disciple was killed for so doing..
Evangelism is a process believers are commanded to participate in. Some remove big rocks from the field, others smaller obstacles, others still break up hard soil, others plant seeds, others water, others harvest. God can use nature and unbelievers who inadvertently help with this too. You may be great at a part I am not and vice versa. But if we have been given a new identity, hiding our hope is not consistent with living out who we are in Christ.
Would you also not tell an islamic family about the messiah? This gets into a kind of moral relativism. It's not you or I who have authority. It is the messiah himself. If you are called by the spirit to speak to others though, do!
You realise you are arguing semantics? You are using your understanding of words to criticise me for doing something you understand. But I've not said the words you put in my mouth.
You understand that within the community that identifies as Christian there are those who say "Lord, lord" who are insincere. Such chaff will not be rewarded as they hope. And here you are saying to me I should make people comply by saying "Lord, lord"?
Evangelism, getting others to see the workings of the Lord in your life is not conformity, which introducing faith doubts into Jewish children is. I must point out that Islamic children are open to discussion and do not have the same family structure on faith that Jews do. So you aren't comparing like apples. Instead, I'd compare converting Hindu children with Jewish ones. But then a child may not have faith, but merely compliance, which is sort of the point when Jesus spoke on childhood?
Unless you can see how we agree, how will you know how we differ?
